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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  June 28, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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representative, katrina pearson, confirms that the policy is being clarified. that clarifies it. he's calling for a muslim ban unless he's calling for a terror country's ban now. that's what his advisers are saying he's doing unless they're not really his advisers. tonight in the wake of the attack, he did not cover at length, which was to propose his muslim ban. we better get tough or we're not going to have much of a country left. fair enough. mr. trump, do you still want to ban muslims from coming into this country? are we allowed to know that before people are suppose to start voting in the presidential election? that does it for tonight, we'll see you again tomorrow, now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnel. >> i guess it raises the question would france or belgium. >> or the 9/11 attacks.
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>> we may never find out. >> thank you, rachel. >> thanks. well, terror came to turkey today, invest store wendy sherman will join us with reaction on suicide bombers attack at the airport. we'll get dan rather's reaction as to what donald trump had to say about today's attack. >> major terrorist attack at the airpo airport. this was coordinated as well as a deadly assault on the third busiest airport in europe. >> it appears to be the lower level of the international terminal, tape not verified by nbc news. >> it's falling on two groups, isis and kurdish separatists. >> in another unverified video, an attack ir accused to be shot by police. >> this is the air we're in now. we have to get it right 24/7. >> with the terrorist have
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struck again in the heart of one of our nato allies and all americans stand united with the people of turkey. >> folks, there's something going on that's really, really bad insta bull. it's 5:00 a.m. in turkey now, where a terror attack has devastated instanbul's airport. multiple suicide bombers blew themselves up at that airport. u.s. authorities are working to determine if any american citizens are among the victim. new video appears to show the explosions. nbc news has not yet independently verified these videos. they are shocking to watch. one video appears to be cell phone video of a security monitor. and it is consistent with other videos of the attack area. another video shows people
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running across the airport and then a large explosion. we must warn you that a third video is graphic and disturbing in this unverified video, an attacker appears to be shot by police. then moments later, that person detonates explosives. no group has yet claimed credit for the attack, but a senior u.s. counter terrorism official tells nbc news richard angle, "it is very likely." those were his words, very likely, that the attack was the work of a group of 35 terrorists that isis has sent to turkey. the officials said the attack
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might be the first of several tied to the end of the muslim holy month of ramadan. here is secretary kerry. >> i want to make sure reporting to press reports, at least, are dead and some 40 wounded and we are still collecting information and trying to ask what happened and who did it. i won't comment further on it, accept to -- except to say this is daily fairing. the first county we need to state. >> joining us now, wendy sherman, former u.s. under secretary of state from political affairs. she's also senior counselor at al bright stone bridge group. invest stoor sherman, why turke? >> first i want to express my
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condolences, i think everyone's, to the turkish people, to the survivors, to the families of those who have parished. to all turks who, tonight, i'm sure, are mourning in the same way, so many communities around the world have mourned. indeed, we talk about, in our political dialogue, islam and muslims, more muslims have died at the hands of terrorists than any other group in the world. and this is one more night of horror in that vein. there are many things going on, turkey is a nato ally and, indeed, there's a nato summit on the eighth and ninth of july coming up where they were going to be discussing terrorism among other things and security solidarity. turkey has been part of the coalition that has been fighting against isis in syria and iraq and, obviously, making progress on the ground and iraq falluja was just retaken. and we know that when isis loses territory, they look to either
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inspire, direct, or plan sells an countries around the world, to make a statement to show recruits they're still powerful. they don't want people to come to syria because they'll die in syria. they're not moving forward in sere yachlt yri syria. they have to reach out and do other things. in addition this is the third largest airport in europe, the 11th largest airport in the world. this is statement to say, turkey should not work with everyone else in the world to get rid of one of the greatest scourges on the face of the earth. >> and speaking of working with everyone else in the world, turkey has been working to improve its relations with israel, recently, including some very recent agreements that they've made. is there any possibility that this attack would have been directly linked to that, or is that timing more coincidental? >> i think the time is coincidental, that's too short of time to plan this attack.
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i think this was sophisticated attack and it probably took more than three or four days to put together. there had been a lot of rumors in the press that, in fact, turkey and israel were going to find their way, finally, to an agreement after so many years. and i'm glad they have, because there will now be more intelligent sharing, more cooperation, and a greater chance that we can get to some of the issues that turkey has been working on, but still needs to work on to close the border with syria, which has really, over the years at times, been see if it's better, but still work, more work needs to be done. >> more of what your former boss jim kerry had to say today. >> it's been more than one year since dash has launched a full scale military offensive. that's because our coalition is moving forward relentlessly on every front. now, yes, you can bomb an airport. you can blow yourself up. that's the tragedy.
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dash and others like it know we have to get it right 24/7, 365, they have to get it right for ten minutes or one hour. it's a very different scale. if you're desperate and if you know you're losing and you know you want to give up your life, then, obviously, do so harm. >> do you agree that this kind of attack is actually, as a result of the success that the u.s. and the allies have been having against isis. >> well, as i said a moment ago, indeed, as isis has lost more territory, there have been more of these terror attacks outside of iraq and syria i'm afraid to say there may be more as you noted in the introe to this. this is the last ten days of ram don and the leader of isis has -- ramadan and the leader of isis has called for the last attacks in the holyiest days.
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not only has turkey created a better relationship with israel, they're trying to make up with russia. so they are really trying to create some solidarity in the world to go forward to deal with this incredible situation that we all have to face together. but, i think, lawrence, one of the things we all have to be sobered up about here as we have our political dialogue, which is pretty intense at the moment. is this is a really sober reality and we need sober and serious people who know what they're doing. it's a complex world. there are no simple answers. there is no one sentence. there is no one act. there is no one thing we can do and i know the american public feels like they want to pull up the bridges, use our oceans to protect us. but we know from 9/11 that oceans won't protect us. we have to work together with the rest of the world to get rid of this terrorists threat. to get rid of it and do everything necessary to do so, including dealing with the
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intense propaganda that isis moves quite effectively through social immediate yachlt we have to work with civil society and with allies and partners around the world to end it. >> is there any tactical change you might expect to see from the administration as a result of this attack? >> i think we will certainly see particularly with the july fourth holiday coming up, intense scrutiny at airports at all of the celebrations for the fourth of july. i think we'll see more police on the street. we need americans to feel safe during this time. i think we will see a whole review of airport security once again to see what we need to do. the security at instanbul's airport is quite extensive. i've gone through that airport and that particular spot many many times, and it's intense security. as others have noted you can push that perimeter out again and again. i think in the bigger war against this kind of terrorism.
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we need to double down on what we've been doing, that is to reclaim territory, led by the iraqis themselves, by forces on the ground, the opposition in syria to take back territory with some advisors from the united states and from other allies and partners in the gulf. we need to work on the propaganda war which is quite intense. we need to stop foreign fighters from returning. we have to work with law enforcement to find out who they are and intelligence sources. we know that intelligence cooperation has to increase in europe there has to be much more intelligent sharing so that things can be known early on. and i want to give a shout out particularly to the families of the police, who some of whom have died this evening in instanbul who probably kept those suicide bombers from doing even more damage and more death and destruction than they did. quite extraordinary acts of
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heroism. >> thank you very much for joining on this difficult night. thank you. >> thank you. coming up, the presidential candidates' responses to the attacks. we'll get dan rathers' reaction. ♪ ♪ it's here, but it's going by fast. the opportunity of the year is back: the mercedes-benz summer event. get to your dealer today for incredible once-a-season offers, and start firing up those grilles. lease the cla250 for $299 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. ng, uck with the meeting today. thank you. as our busines ng, with the meeting today. thank you. and you're on the road all day long, it's exhausting. holiday inn has been a part of the team. you're on the fourth floor.
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fight fire with fire. that's what donald trump said today. proving that he's never actually fought fire. that's coming up. with hydrogenated oil...
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if the attack in turkey is the work of the islamic state, it is the latest indication of the challenges in fighting that group. the united states has been carrying out air strikes against iraq and syria in august 2014. days ago iraqi forces recaptured the city of falluja. the global coalition to gather isil to give an update on the progress in the war against isil. >> foreign fighters are down and more countries never before sharing information outside financing has been served and internal financing has taken a significant hit. isil's propaganda messaging is being challenged 24/7 through a global network. >> earlier this month, john brennan went before the city select committee on intelligence with this assessment. >> unfortunately, despite all
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our progress against isil on the battlefield and in the financial realm, our efforts have not reduced the group east's terror capability and global reach. >> terror analyst director of middle east and north africa research and analysis for flash point. john brennan's assessment got a tremendous amount of attention at the time that even though we have all this progress on the battlefield, as it were, this part, holding down them going into an airport as suicide bombers is the hardest part. >> oh, absolutely. one -- these types of attacks are extremely hard to intercept or even collect intelligence if they're carried out without direction from the group. isil is expanding well beyond libya today, very heavily in southeast asia. we see training camps pop up in
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the philippines. we see assassinations being carried out. we see them breeching attacks in malaysia. we see them expanding in pakistan, beyond control. so while isis might be facing some challenges in et cetera strong hold in iraq and syria, it's certainly expanding elsewhere. >> your reaction to what we saw today? what does it tell us about what's coming. >> i think one thing that's important to know, isis has been relatively mild in its attacks toward turkey so far. to attack the airport in instanbul is a direct attack. turkey has been a direct report for isis fighters for so long. for some of the recent statements in the group as well what we've heard from brett today. it's clear that turkey has made it much more difficult for these fighters to transit. so to attack turkey, means it's on between these two entities. >> okay. what does it mean it's on.
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turkey has made it more difficult for them to transit, they decide we've had enough. doesn't this make it impossible for them to transit. does it make it even worse. >> not necessarily impossible. not necessarily work either. the region is long and pretty fierce, they can enter from multiple locations. >> let's get the map of turkey up there at the screen when we talk about this to show how vulnerable it is, how long -- how exposed turkey is to syria and iraq. >> exactly, you have actually multiple regions controlled by multiple parties, not only isis, you have areas controlled by army, you also have areas controlled by the kurds. in the bigger picture, really, this is a message not only to turkey, this is a message if it was indeed directed by isis to the entire coalition that we can strike not only, you know, against any kind of target, but in the hearts of the airports, significantly your main fear today, directed towards less.
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>> graham, i assumed some people will look at that and say, well, this is country shares a border with syria and iraq, we don't, whatever country we're in, italy, or united states, france. how threatened should the rest of the world feel by an attack in turkey? >> well, they certainly -- if it is the islamic state and they chose at the turkey airport, they're shooting a site. it's the gateway of turkey to the west, to the rest of the world. and so, i do think that the statement that is being sent is that we're attacking not just turkey, but the rest of the world as well. whether that means that we should feel more threatened and say, in europe or the united states, i doubt it. but it's definitely a statement beyond the borders of turkey, as well. >> the turkey certainly prior to all of these troubles use to be a very popular summer destination for people traveling from this country and others. what do you think this means for
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international travel and the way people regard the safety of airports around the world. >> certainly it creates massive anxiety. especially this airport, one of the busiest of the world and not only westerners clearly people throughout the middle east, muslim people traveling through the holy month of ramadan, i think it send an anxiety across travellers. i think it might have an impact on the tourism industry inside turkey itself. whether that's going to be short term or long term, that depend on whether more attacks, more anxiety will unfold, there it is. >> you see more of the desperate acts the more it's on the battlefield. >> that if they have a further crack down from turkey, then it
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will be a crack down on a pipeline that's mostly been shut off. when we see attack overseas, when we see places like falluja turn into failures and defeats for the islamic state and their own territory. >> before this attack, i boarded a plane early this morning. by the time i got off the plane, the airport was filled with special police, a heavily armed can we expect as air travellers to see something different from this point. >> we should certainly expect it happened after 9/11. it happened after every single major terror attack that targeted airports or not. we should expect an increased security, whether in airports in the united states, or overseas. but i think in the grand scheme of things this war, if you want
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to label it as war with isis, it's only still unfolding. there's a lot of steps to take to defeat that kind of threat -- not letting the fears seep in or combatting them on the ground. it's going to be multi facetted war and we can expect security at the airports going forward not only for the rest of the summer, but likely in the future. >> assuming it's isis, are there any more tactics. are there any possible tactical changes that are available to the administration. >> i think not at this point. the types of attacks that isis chooses to use are the hardest to intercept, the hardest to stop once they're rolling. now, we see that they didn't try to smuggle a bomb on to a plane, which we've worked really hard to stop them from being able to do. they attacked the outer layer of security and they penetrated it.
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this is something that it's not as if we can increase security measures at every level of the airport. once you drive up to, at some point you'll meet the first security person. that's where isis has chosen to attack. the measures that are available to the administration are mostly military ones in isis is core territory and those are being pursued quite actively. >> thank you, both, for joining us. appreciate it. up next presidential candidate's reaction to the attack in turkey. dan rather will join us. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready, but our subaru legacy will be waiting for him. (vo)he longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. the twenty-sixteen subaru legacy.
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a politician saying you have to fight fire with fire proves two things at the same time. one, that politician has an overly simplistic world view untroubled by cliche, two, that politician has never been a firefighter, never actually fought fire. >> we have to be so strong. we have to fight so viciously and violently because we're dealing with violent people. can you imagine them sitting around the table or wherever they're eating their dinner talking about the americans don't do water boarding, and yet we chop off heads. they probably think we're weak, we're stupid. we don't know what we're doing. we have no leadership.
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you know, you have to fight fire with fire. >> joining us now, dan rather, former anchor of the cbs evening news. so, dan, fight fire with fire, does that mean fight terrorism with terrorism? >> frankly, i don't know exactly. >> we never what he means. >> what we do know what we're into here, donald trump is making a plea to people's emotions. and as individuals we always have to struggle with emotion versus region, so it is with the presidential campaign. donald trump has made his bet. his bet is that as the terror attacks increase and they probably will increase, as the terrorists get more desperate, they haven't had a battlefield victory in a year, maybe. they're a little bit more desperate. his bet is that as the terror attacks increase, perhaps his economy, people respond more to
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an emotional appeal as it is to region, which is where president obama and hillary clinton acquisitioned themselves. >> here is how hillary clinton fought fire today in this statement. she said terrorist have struck again in the heart of all americans stand united what the people of turkey against this campaign of hatred and violence, on the part of turkish police are emerging for the quick actions to prevent the suspect. today's attack only strengthens our resolve to defeat the forces of terrorism and radical jihadism and reminds that the united states cannot retreat. we must deepen our cooperations with our allies and partners to take on this threat. such cooperation is essential to protecting the homeland and keeping our country safe. totally, totally different reaction. >> well, there you have it. gave it a reason.
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anyone who says you fight fire with fire has never been a firefighter. i would suggest firefighters know you don't firefighter with emotion. you do measure it, thoughtful. in this case with what we're facing with the terrorists, this is a complex world. this is a complex subject. it calls for choosing where are you going to take them on and how you're going to take them on. take them on, but take them on at a time and place of our choosing. another metaphor might be, i tried to box when i was in high school, i didn't box very well. anybody whoever box knows than an emotional fighter in the ring is a vulnerable fighter. when you get stung, go at it, that's dangerous to do. what you need to do is stay, get your head, look for an opening. now, i'm not sure that metaphor will apply, it's gone through my mind today. >> what do you think has changed
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in the american voter's mind that so far minority of voters, who favor donald trump. because that notion of steadiness and showing steadiness has been the presidential concept for a very long time. that's what people have been voting for, is we want the person who is going to be steady and cool in the heat of fire. >> well, that's the way people have been voting and president obama's approval rating has been going up recently. maybe as high as they've been. donald trump, i think i said on this program before. i still believe donald trump can win. there is a path that his path is getting narrower and narrower it seems to me. hillary clinton could still win very big. her path is wider and easier. but there's still a very long time to go as you and i both know covering politics over the years. the harder the campaign doesn't
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start until after labor day. >> new washington post poll on the question of, who do you trust more to handle terrorism very relevant today and the latest number shows hillary clinton at 50. donald trump at 39. and that comes in the aftermath of what we saw on orlando in which donald trump's reaction, apparently, did not play well for him. >> well, i'm not much believer in polls period, but particularly during this time of presidential campaign, i frankly think more most polls are about as useless as a pulled tooth. but my sense of the country is in the wake of orlando, that what candidate clinton had to say played much bet we are the public at large than what donald trump had to say. again, i come back to trump has put nearly all of his chips on as time goes along, he's betting that more and more people say, listen, we can't go on this way,
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we've got to have change and present himself as an agent of change. >> there's another item on this abc, abc washington post poll. specifically, about the candidate's response to orlando and it showed that 59% thought that hillary clinton's temperament was better. 53% thought she had the confidence that could handle the situation like that as president. and so those poll numbers for what they're worth, i agree with you, they're not worth a great deal. still, when you're on the trump end of those poll numbers in a campaign, the campaign war room starts to panic. >> you would think so raises the question whether donald trump has a presidential campaign has it has been defined in the past. there's no indication that there's a grass roots organization in place. that's one precinct by precinct
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and door by door and it requires a tremendous amount of organization. now, donald trump may be the first in history, if he continues this way, it's sort of a top campaign without the under pennings, he may be the first cam presidential campaign in history to win. i would have to be convinced. we keep waiting for him to get that organization going. part of it has to do with money. some of them are saying not now or never. i keep coming back, there are ways to go, but time is beginning to run out on donald trump. and i think the path for his possible winning, there is still a path gets narrower and narrower. we'll know more, perhaps, after the conventions, i don't think we'll be able to say definitively close to a real trend until after labor day. >> i hope to see you many times
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before that. >> thank you. up next, donald trump gave his ideas today, international trade. a very important policy speech that changes the history of the republican party on that subject. anyone with type 2 diabetes knows how it feels to see your numbers go up, despite your best efforts. but what if you could turn things around? what if you could... love your numbers? discover once-daily invokana®. it's the #1 prescribed sglt2 inhibitor that works to lower a1c. a pill taken just once in the morning, invokana® is used along with
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the trans pacific partnership is another disaster, pushed by special interest who want to rape our country just to continuing rape of our country, that's what it is a harsh word. it's a rape of our country. this is done by wealthy people that want to take advantage of us and that want to sign another partnership. >> and so there you have donald trump's definition of rape. joining us now is tim miller, an advised for our pac and the former communications for jeb bush 2016. joining us the washington bureau chief and analyst. i have to ask you about this trump speech today beyond this
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description of rape which apparently his speech writer put in there so donald trump will sound like donald trump. >> this is a complete refuting of all republican party on national trade today. >> yeah, if he wasn't a serial liar you might hear from david after me he liked what david had to say, he sounded more like ralph nader than like a republican politician. this is extremely trouble some, you know, why i am supporting republican delegates to actually speak out against trump, either through the platform of the rules committee or on the floor of the convention, we're in danger of having two antitrade parties which will be a disaster for our economy long term, you know, because, you know, of the nature of the world we're living in today. >> let's listen to what donald trump said today about hillary clinton and tpp. >> she would make a small token
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change, declare the tpp pack fix and ram it through and you will suffer. that's why hillary is now only say she has problem with tpp in its current form. you know what that means, they'll make like a two world change and she effects it and she'll feel great. she said in its current form. she can rush to embrace it again and she'll let the earliest opportunity. if the media doesn't believe me, i have a challenge for you, and hillary, ask hillary if she's willing to withdraw from the tpp, her first day in office and unconditionally rule out its passage in any form. >> being asked that question never ask about policy, it's about the latest poll and that sort of thing. by the time she gets to one of the debates she may well be asked that question.
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>> she may -- as tim said, in a parade of lies, he goes on about rape and just today the news came out that he wants mike tyson a convicted rapist speak at his convention in cleveland. he goes on and on about how obama doesn't do anything about trade and balances, even obama administration imposed 522% tariff on chinese steel dumping. he doesn't seem to understand that automation is as much a problem in terms of middle class or high paying manufacturing jobs as trade issues are. it's simplistic. it's kind of like listening and dice clay, reading a column from the "wall street journal." it's simplistic and as false a presentation as you've ever heard presidential candidate
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when it comes to discussing policy. >> yeah. donald trump, along with many don't realize that steel production of the united states has gone up, while the number of factories and the number of jobs has gone down. but i want to listen, also, to what donald trump said about nafta, because this is very much a part of the undoing of republican policy on trade. let's listen so this. >> i'm going to tell our nafta partners that i intend to immediately renegotiate the terms of that agreement, to get a better deal by a lot not just a little, by a lot of our workers, if they don't agree to a renegotiation which they might not because they're so use to having their own way, not with trump, they won't have their own way. then i will submit, under article 2205 of the nafta
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agreement, that america intends to withdraw from the deal. >> i don't expect anyone to remember this, but both hillary clinton and barack obama in 2008 as candidates said that they would reopen and renegotiate nafta i knew they were not telling the truth about that and they didn't do it. they didn't have a mention of it after the obama administration took office. but here you have a republican saying, i'm going to reopen it and if we don't reopen it and change it substantially, then i'm going to withdraw. we're going to withdraw from that nafta. this is not terribly different spiritually from withdrawing from the european union, which began as a simple trade agreement and grew up into something much bigger. >> yeah, i think it is different because it grew up into something much bigger. it would be an absolute disaster for our economy to have donald trump to threaten tariffs trade
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war of china and pulling out of nafta, any conservatives that are watching your show right now should be disturbed that david liked some of the points that trump was making, even though he doesn't trust him. you know, he doesn't trust him for good reason. >> right. >> he's the guy that said that out sourcing was good three years ago. you know, obviously, all of his products are out sourced, his ties, you know, he built his towers without u.s. steel because it was cheaper. you know, trump is the biggest hypocrite. but people should be disturbed that he would find a mandate for this, what he's saying and he'll have to go through with it. and it would be horrific for consumers and horrific for job creation in this country. >> david, quick last word here. >> listen, you look at trump's business career over the last 34 years and he's not the great negotiator he says he is. he also is talking points, no
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sophistication. tim, i don't want trade wars, either. and i think this is one issue where you and i can agree that -- that trump is not the man to deal with the economic issues that are challenges that our country faces. >> tim and david, stick around, we'll come back to you, coming up the republicans and donald trump and the fight over delegates, can those delegates be unbound. the plot to revolt against donald trump continues. ♪ it's here, but it's going by fast. the opportunity of the year is back: the mercedes-benz summer event. get to your dealer today for incredible once-a-season offers, and start firing up those grilles. lease the e350 for $499 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.
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ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension. your blood pressure could drop an unsafe level. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viag and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra single pks. 6:00 a.m. in turkey here now is a live look at instanbul's airports. we're getting reports that flights are beginning to arrive there again after the deadly terror attacks. it's also reporting that the faa has now lifted an earlier ban on flights between the u.s. and
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instanbul's. 36 people have been confirmed killed by suicide bombers in the attack. officials say 147 people were also injured. as of now there has been no claim of responsibility. nbc richard angle report authorities believe the bombings may have been carried out by isis militants dozens of which were sent to launch attacks during the month of ramadan, which ends next tuesday. shocking videos have surfaced. this one is believed to be recording of a security camera at the airport that has not been verified by nbc news. another video, which we warn you, we must warn you, it is graphic and disturbing, appears to show one of the attackers being shot by police and then several seconds later explosives that the attacker was wearing then detonated, as you just saw. >> the white house released a statement tonight which reads in
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part. reremain steadfast in our support for turkey, our nato ally and partner along with all of our friend and allies around the world as we continue to confront the threat of terrorism. we'll be right back. hello welcome to holiday inn. running our own business, we've been traveling a lot. a hotel looking to help small businesses succeed is incredible. thank you. holiday inn is an extension of our team. book your next journey at holidayinn.com try duo fusion!ing antacids? thank you. holiday inn is an extension of our team. new, two in one heartburn relief. the antacid goes to work in seconds...
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do you know how much donald trump loves suing people and threaten toing to sue people. it might be contagious, there's a republican delegate who is now suing that he won't have to vote. -- vote for donald trump at the convention. the movement goes to court. that's next.
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tonight arizona senator john mccain seemed to side with the republican convention delegates who are planning a revolt against donald trump. senator mccain said, i think it's up to every delegate to make up their own minds. i do not tell them what to do. i never have. i don't remember him saying that when he was the nominee. carol member of the virginia delegation has filed a federal lawsuit so that he can have the right to not vote for donald trump. back with us, tim miller and david corn and so, tim, the dump trump movement is going to court and give us the best assessment at this hour of how much life, how much possibility there is in dumping trump at the convention. >> look, from the legal
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standpoint, the facts are on their side. now, this is going to end up being a traditional convention rules fight and obviously, the rnc and the trump campaign are going to do everything they can, pull every lever they have to stop it. the delegates -- they are not bound to support donald trump. all of the delegates based on the rules of the last convention are unbound. if you saw the news today that the trump convention is the id ok kra si come to life with mike tyson and bobby knight and all of couple of prowrestling matchings away from this being a complete nightmare. i think every piece of bad news gives these delegates more mo to win the pr war. the facts are on their side. they're unbound. >> whenever i see mike tyson on a show or invited to something. i always wonder, who couldn't they get. how far down the list did they have to go.
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>> trump is going there right away. he's a great guy. >> you know, when i think of this convention, i kind of think of if you watch the game of thrown, that's donald trump. i think if, you know, it's nice of these delegates think that they can have a free vote here i don't know what's going to come of the legal case. at the end of the day and, you know, this is what tim is up against, the party's voters want donald trump. he got the largest block of voting. he won the largest number of states. and a lot of, you know, polls have shown that most republicans are okay with him. even if they're not wow for him. where are you going to turn. >> let me interject a note here. on this question, republican
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voters satisfied with donald trump was the nominee. it's only 45%, 45%. >> yeah, it's been hard in the past. it may go up and down. >> okay. despite that the fact that there were loud voices, they were up around high 60s, mid to low 70s. that's a long distance from 48 to 70%. and so i think donald trump is vulnerable to this, particularly if general election polls show him losing, if he has bad news cycles between now and cleveland and depending on the -- excuse me, the success of delegate organization effort, which i think is making progress. >> david, we've never discussed this before about a candidate in this situation going into a convention. i mean, isn't that dangerous enough that this is even being discussed. it's a real subject out there. >> i think this is incredibly dangerous and damaging for the party itself. you have the leaders of the
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party who can't come out and say that they're four square for trump. you have people on the republican side that are taking out ads, who are running for office. i think it's incredibly dangerous. but i just, you know, i do believe that he represents, if not the majority and near majority of republican voters, and that's the real dynamic here. >> we have some breaking news here. >> we have some breaking news. >> stop. stop. donald trump has been watching the show. he just tweeted literally two minutes ago, iron mike tyson was not asked to speak at the convention, although i'm sure he would do a good job if he was. the media makes everything up. so donald trump will get the last word in this particular segment tonight. david -- >> that's sad. >> and this saves you because we ran out of time to get your answer to who is hillary clinton in game of thrones, unless you
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have a quick answer, give you time to think about and come back on the show. >> eel come back. >> miller and corn thank you both for joining us. we appreciate it. chris hayes is up next. tonight, why turkey is so crucial to the future of europe, the middle east, and counterterrorism. how the candidates are reacting here at home, and what the white house is saying today about progress against isis. plus, congressman keith ellison on the latest explanation of donald trump's muslim ban, and eight congressional committees later, republicans finally face the facts on benghazi. >> there are bumper stickers and t-shirts all over this country that say, hillary clinton lied, people died, is that true? >> you don't see that t-shirt on

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